John Robb - Part 3: Fucking about with your mates and 'Oyston Out - the movie'

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MCLF: The one thing I hope from all this is that we can boil football down to what it is. You get all this stuff on SKY about 'it's a religion' and it isn't. It's an entertainment, a distraction and it shouldn't be so complex, so difficult to imagine 90 odd teams being able to exist and play football against each other. People always talk about the 'football family...' 

JR: ... that thing about 'the family' - I would like to see the Man Uniteds and the Man Cities looking after...maybe they already do and don't make a song and dance about it...but they should be looking after the Accrington Stanley's. It's not just the league clubs as well, it's all the way down the pyramid.... It's like music in a way, it shouldn't be all about the superstars, everyone should have a chance to make music and they've cut back on it in all the schools, everyone should have the opportunity to be in a room, with other people, creating. You learn a lot about yourself and how to deal with other people, it's empowering and that empowerment is one of the most important things, it's not about having a career out of it, or impressing Simon Cowell or being number 1.

It's about 3 kids on a council estate in Blackpool, making something wonderful and creative in a bedroom or a garage, or in a school and learning something about each other, even if it's only for 10 minutes, finding something deep inside themselves, that is artistic and magical. That's the power of music. Too much goes on, like in football, about the lives of the superstars, and what's amazing, is that kid, 14, stays after school for an hour, makes something, a piece of music, whatever it is, doesn't matter, when they go home, they're buzzing, they feel so high, they've made a connection the world - that's what music is about.

It's what sport's about as well. Watching George Best was amazing, his whole story was amazing, apart from the end which is the saddest end to any football story. The caretaker was right in that story,  the one about a caretaker going in and seeing George Best, lying on a bed, with two Miss Worlds, bottles of champagne all over the the floor and saying 'where did it all go wrong' - people laughed at that story for year, but he was right that caretaker. The magic of George Best was on the pitch, not lying drunk in a hotel room. He said that himself, he knew that.

The magic of football is, that anyone can play football, it doesn't matter how crap you are, or what physical condition you are in, you can still have a kick around on the pitch - I remember this from school, everybody used to play play football and the kids who couldn't play used to run around doing football commentaries, taking the piss, having a laugh. It doesn't matter if they fluff a pass, you don't have to be a fucking superstar, just get on the pitch, get some fresh air and just move about. That was the empowerment of football and why it's the world's most wonderful game. You don't really need anything to play,  You don't need a stadium, it was really was that thing that people laugh at, 'jumpers for goalposts' that's how we used to play, in the park, in Cleveleys, it was just a kickabout, and we were all shite but it was magical, we played till it was so dark, you couldn't see anyone else, and that was the power of football, it was so engaging. It's great going watching your local club, you'd see you mates, the players were only slightly better than you ever were, but they really wanted it, but at the end of the day, the best football you'll probably ever know...and you don't need to go on a five-a-side pitch... is just fucking about in the park, running about a bit, having a laugh...

That was the same with music at that level, it works, fucking about with your mates - that's the magic of both sport and music.

MCLF: On that note, I'd like to know what musicians were any good at football... Joe Strummer was supposed to be good... or have I made that up? 

JR: No, no, I read a thing about the Clash playing football when they were making London Calling  and they were supposed to have played in the same style as they were like as people, so Mick just ran with it, on his own and never passed it, Joe just shouted at everyone, Simonen was pretty dirty and Topper was pretty nifty. I think the best football is Johnny Marr, he was meant to be a really good player he had trials I think, Billy Duffy too - he had a team in LA - Hollywood Utd, Steve Jones played with them. Bobby Gillespie too, we played against him a couple of times, when we gigged in Scotland, we'd play internationals, England v Scotland against the Scottish bands, like the Pastels and Primal Scream, Stephen from the Pastels, he was really good, him and Bobby were nifty wingers, but we'd always be fucked up after the night before on acid and we'd lose about 9-0

MCLF: Back on Blackpool; if you were Simon Sadler and you had your big pot of hedge fund money and you'd scooped out however much it is you've decided to invest and put it in an envelope marked 'Blackpool FC' - what would you spend it on?

JR: The first thing is, I think the day the Oystons were kicked out of the club was the equivalent of 1953, which is the greatest cup final of all time, as everyone knows - even my Preston fan mates admit that, it’s such a magical story… What would I do…? I would make it into a ‘people’s club’ - I’d open the doors up a bit more, maybe they already do this, I don’t know, but I’d have it so the facilities could be used by people in the town, I’d have it to encourage physical fitness in the town - Blackpool has got one of the worst rates of everything, health, diet and there’s a massive sports club, right in the middle of it - there could be all kind of sports played there, just to encourage kids to play sport, they don’t have to be the best in the world - just play, it’s good for you, mentally and physically. - So, it should be forward and outward facing, not inward facing. 

I don’t expect us to win the Premier League, I think we’re a championship club and anything we get above that, a season or two in the Premier League if you get lucky, that’s cool. You’ve got to be realistic. The Championship is a great level, there’s big clubs in it, Leeds United have been stuck there for years. 

Hopefully, we’ve not seen much of the new manager yet, but I loved it in the Holloway era, it was like Robin Hood, it was like we said before, like playing in the park, where nobody would play in defence and that really suits Blackpool, that cavalier style. As you know, it’s quite a dour town sometimes, and everyone gets a bit down and it lifts it, when you get a team playing like that… y’know, when we 4-0 down in the Premier League and chanting ‘You’ve only got 4’ and then we’d score a couple and they’d start shitting themselves - those were the best games that season, nobody’s heads going down, it was inspiring to watch. Holloway was the right man at the right time. 

I’d like to see forward thinking, progressive thinking, linking up with people like Dale Vince, we don’t have to use an old model, we can use a new model, but also not lose touch with its roots. There’s no reason it can’t be a middle class and a working class club at the same time, it’d be good for Blackpool, put Blackpool on the map, change perceptions of the town. All those things are really important. 

MCLF: Ok, one more! As a 'person in the media', are you aware of anyone out there who could help tell the story of the Oystons and their removal from the club? It’s SUCH a good story… 

JR: I know at some point, someone was going to write a book, but I don’t know what happened to it, but I think it just kept going on, he kept hanging on and everyone got so dispirited with waiting for it to happen... It IS a great story, but I think the trouble is, up to the point of the virus, the narrative of football has all been about the big clubs, everythings about the lives of the people at the top of society, it's a the soap opera of Liverpool and Man United and a few london clubs is what football had become isn't it? No one is interested in places like Blackpool, the Oyston struggle was a local struggle... 

MCLF: That's true, but it's maybe got something to say to the top clubs? You've got Newcastle and all the years of conflict, Man United and the Glaziers, I can never work out if Arsenal actually have got anything to moan about or are just spoiled, but they're not happy, even Liverpool a few years back with the old owners - of all the clubs going through this, we're the one group of fans who've actually gone 'fuck this, we're not having it' and gates went from 10,000 to about 1,000 home fans - I'm not saying it was all the fans, there was all the legal stuff obviously, but there's no doubt it had an effect and it's got to say something to the rest of football... 

JR: It's a great story and what's great about it is, it was about those 10,000 people, it's not like Man United with 8 million fans all around the world, it's about those 10,000 people, with not very much money, taking on a very rich person. It is a Robin Hood story, a story for our times and in a post virus world, it could be a really inspiring one, because now, we're beginning to see things differently - I think for years, people thought, people who'd made that amount of money must be smart and now people are starting to realise, a lot of them were selfish and lucky, and maybe in football, the people on the terraces, and now the people on the front line, know what they're talking about and should be listened to as well, so maybe, ironically, that story fits really well into a post virus world... It'd make a good film, a really good film... All those great characters, like Afroman - you could make a film about him alone! 

MCLF: Yeah, it's the range of characters too, there's three or four people who are absolutely bonkers doing brilliant, anarchic stuff and then some really, really, serious, thoughtful, eloquent people as well, loads of different backgrounds, they're all united in the same cause... Compared to some campaigns or protests, there's no massive factions or squabbles, just a group of people, who aren't even that political, just going 'no, we're not fucking having this...' 

JR: The irony is, the most inspiring character in the whole campaign, over all the years, is Oyston himself, cos every time he opened his mouth he made sure 10,000 people were against him! 

MCLF: Those two (and their relationship) would also make fantastic characters...

JR: Karl, at any minute he could have sorted it out, gone 'ok, hands up, I've fucked it up, I'm sorry about what I've said, lets get this sorted out' and everyone would've gone 'ok, you're a bit of a dick' and got on with it - but no, he's so arrogant. CEOs, dictators, they're like psychopaths, they have no empathy. People I've met who've been really successful don't give a fuck about anyone else, there's a few exceptions but Oyston and Trump, they're really, really similar characters, but the tragedy for Oyston is, he's a failed Trump! Trump ended up running the biggest country in the world and Oyston's legacy is getting kicked out of a medium sized football club and losing all his money at the same time

MCLF: That's a very good way of of putting it, I'd never thought of it like that... I was at the game after he'd been charged with rape, and he came out on the pitch, with a microphone and talked at a bemused crowd for what seemed like about 20 minutes, it was truly weird, we're were all stood their thinking 'what's he on about...?' and now you've said that, it does seem really 'Trumpian' because it was all 'don't listen to the lies, it's all a plot' and just bare-faced rubbish about 'I've put my whole life into making this club great' - exactly how Trump would speak... Karl always intrigues me, especially the relationship with his dad... he seemed really reasonable, y'know, almost decent sometimes then he'd just do the stupidest things...

JR: Yeah, like taking his picture with the van outside, or going on the messageboards... Why would you want that much hatred in your life, why would you look for that much antagonism in a small town, where there's nowhere to hide... It's mad innit?! 

MCLF: I think there's a 6 part cult TV series in it... Last one, it's quick! - Come and do half time entertainment!

JR: Ha, that'd be great! Once all the virus stuff is over, I'm coming up for a game, I've not been for ages and I've been invited up to meet people. I'm not really an executive box kind of person though! I'll go and find my mates, I still know people who've been going since 70/71.

With that, we exchanged a few brief stories of lockdown experiences and John was on his way...

My huge thanks to John for being a pleasure to chat to. You can follow John online on Facebook and Twitter. His own interview work is brilliant and you can always find something on his various channels to wile away the long hours of lockdown stasis, from Liam Gallagher to Steve Albini, from Nirvana or Patti Smith to Stewart Lee...

Or you could crack on and do some of your own fucking about. Everything starts somewhere.

UTMP